Retd. Sub.A. Naidu(--)
The so called caste-mentality of Indians is overemphasised. It is not so rigid as some people think. In reality you will find people of similar background get along very well together. For instance I founnd the mentality of hindi , marathi and punjabi farmer background persons --so called middle caste--exactly similar to my community. In fact I would say all farmers have similar outlook in general. But they may belong to totally different "caste" and regionally distant also. Tamil middle sized farmer has same mentality as Haryana middle farmer. Even if they are now city educated employees. This is only due to economic factor which has given rise to social factor. Please write about this also somewhere.
(reply......I've asked him to give more such details)
Nagarajan (-- )
My community is called Seer Karuneegar. We are concentrated in North Arcot (which previously included Chittoor), South Arcot and Chengalput dists of Tamilnadu. We are called karnam in villages, but unlike karnams in andhra we are not brahmins, though our living style has some Braminical traits : we follow all traditions of Brahminical rituals (including Gothra, marriage rituals etc.,) but have very little liking for Sanskrit (some are extremely anti-sanskritish). Some are also non-vegetarians. We are classified by TN as BC. In general we are very poor. I couldn't find much info about this community..Could anyone throw, some light on the origin and history of this community?
no name : --
Could brahmins in AP be actually of kaapu /raju origin? I heard about some group called "kosar"
About Kosar I have no info, think it is a tamil word. Re origin--please read the first line of the article on brahmins. For all we know they could be of very old tribal origin--not just kapu/ raju /whatever, etc. Also you are assuming today's community categories have existed rigidly from all time. Instead of airing our opinions let's see what Manusmriti has to say. A community can go "up" the scale and can go "down" the scale as well. The so called four-caste structure even in rigid times merely meant one badge (out of four available) worn by a ethnic group. A community can get promoted or demoted as the case may be. Also, according to manu, who seems to support feminism, "excellent wives can be obtained from anybody" ( i.e. without reference to caste stuff). Hope this clears up your question. Actually brahmins (and everyone else we can think of ) have more remote common origins, eg. from australopithecus and trilobites. Now what caste are these? check out wikipedia for details.
N.C.RAO (Rlys, assam):--
Your website was helpful in proving to the Rly Administration that "madiga" caste is scheduled caste recognized by Govt. of Andhra Pradesh and it is called Muchi in Assam list. I am very much thankful to you. Please add it is also called Charmakara in West Bengal.
.....glad it was useful. Please collect and send me the all - India and state-wise list of scheduled castes, I'll put it up as well.
Lakshmi (http://chilligavva.com) :--
I wanted to tell you how much I liked reading your articles over the years. I remember reading the articles on Heritage India site which I think eventually shut down. I quite by accident came across this site. My favourite article of yours is on Ukku. It made a very fascinating read for me.
I suggest that you go for a Wordpress.com blog which is free and supports tagging, categories etc., which would allow you more flexibility in your site and would be easily referenced, indexed etc. Also why not have your own domain? You could setup a setup a wiki software.
Ravindra M (bmravindra--yahoo)
Does anyone know of a place called AHICCHATRA on GODAVARI river? (not the UP one.) Also take a look at www.tulu-research.blogspot.com.
I'm a velama, i want to know more about the history of velama kings. Thank you very much for providing information about velama kingdoms. Doing my masters in health care administration in the USA.
Why do you rule out Kammas descent from Eastern Chalukyas? Why identify Rajus only?
I have not ruled out anything. Let's take this step by step. All right, for the purpose of inspection, let us assume they were Kammas. Now we have to check. See the areas where the Eastern Chalukyas were prominent. (Pithapuram, Elamanchili, Eluru Vijayawada Guntur ..up to Nellore : main being today's Godavari districts, then Krishna, Guntur and Prakasam districts.) Allowing for migrations and so on, which communities are prominent in these areas today ? Not just Kammas. The heartland of eastern chalukya rule was Godavari--who is prominent there? ...seems Rajus, more than Kammas. Now, we can't rule out some E. Chalukya ancestors for today's Kammas. But we have to see some evidence too. There are several inscriptions of the time: many of them are government orders of the day granting tax free lands to accomplished military people ( we dont know their community name) : grants were made to learned brahmins.( who may or may not be ancestors of today's various brahmin communities). There is mention of kutumbins ( heads of municipal wards, usually community-oriented ) : Rattadis (headmen of larger units : these are the later Reddis.) Gramundi ( headman Goud of village) is also mentioned in inscriptions. The "Kaampulu" of the concerned villages are mentioned i.e. cultivators, probably some of today's Kaapus. Even Mudirajus are mentioned. But kammas? I havent got inscriptional evidence so far. Karmarashtra is mentioned as a region. As a "community" there is no trace until 1200's AD during late kakatiya times. Earlier? Maybe they came as immigrants..some evidence available. Maybe they developed under sectarian religious influence like Veeravaishnavism and Veerashaivism...some evidence available, eg Palanati Yuddham ballads. Maybe they WERE very much there from earlier, under some other name. I don't know. Like I said, this "caste-" or "community"-identity is primarily a cultural matter.
addition: say! maybe the descendants of medieval Chalukyas are found today among a section of Velamas ! Many of these people are connected with forts and residual feudal attitudes as well.
Please contribute to wikipedia which is a people's encyclopedia. etc etc. especially about Kapus. Someone has posted a piece on "pseudo-kshatriyas".
reply:-- Wikipedia is great. but there's a small problem, actually. It is democratic, meaning every person has the right to add or edit anything. In this matter I am not "democratic". Better that people spout off on their own pages, and if it is worth anything it can be linked from wikipedia or any other page. Further, several otherwise bright people labour under the delusion that facts are to be suppressed rather than discussed, if they knock a hole in their strongly held opinions. Anyway, as far as I know there aren't any "official" kshatriyas around, really. But anyone who risks his life routinely in his calling, would probably be termed one I suppose. Forget all these classifications.
About Velamas--they have no unity like Kammas. But they do possess valor and decency and are fanatical fighters when it comes to fighting for a righteous cause. (intent of this post is not casteist.)
Some famous Velamas--Maj Gen R Madhava Rao AVSM, Padma Bhushan Dr. Ch, Hanumantha Rao , Ch Rajeshwar Rao MLA , Vinod Kumar TRS MP, B Narayana Rao, film Director .
( ___ )(---):--
Indus valley script has been discovered in Tamilnadu on a polished stone axe. Dr I. Mahadevan has read the script as Murukan, a deity. More details from the Hindu newspaper on line.
comment:--I suspect it is a case of over enthusiasm and hope, if not a hoax. Looks like 3 marks caused by natural wear. The stone, if it is actually a man made tool, would be neolithic, very common all over South India. Harappans had extensive trade with south India, but as an advanced economy buying raw material from primitive tribal people. Why is it only this ONE "inscription" has been discovered ? The earliest examples in South India of possible script is prakrit-brahmi markings on megalithic potsherds of around 200 BC. Not tamil. And not 2400 BC of harappans, whatever language they used. It is also more likely people in Tamilnadu those days spoke mundari or older languages which were like australian aborigine language. Dravidian seems to a sudden arrival in south India, probably from eelam (the area later became persia).
In any case regarding Harappans, why argue only aryan and dravidian? There are so many language familes in India, including mundari, monkhmer, tibetoburman, burshaski, khowari, nahali, kusunda, andamanese, etc etc ---any of which, or several, could have been spoken in Indus valley civilisation. Dravida seems more connected to migration from ancient Elam.
I am a bhimavaram raju. It is said there are three culturally different raju traditions viz toorpu ( north coastal), bhimavaram, and guntur in Andhra pradesh, although they intermarry. Similarly there are different traditions in Tamilnadu also. Maybe these traditions are derived from different groups and histories centred on those areas.
----There seem to be some subtle differences, but taking a close look doesn't show distinctly different culture: just something like emphasis on particular rituals druing marriage, etc. Small things like designs of traditional jewellery. Rest of the "differences" seem regional, since they are connected to food preparation , ingredients etc. Such differences are mirrored in other communities too. However many Rajus do have traditional histories, and it is here different groups seem to be reflected. Vishnukundin, Karnataka Chalukyas, Orissa and Medieval Vijayanagar-Gajapatis.
S.R.K. (--) :--
It is said military-brahmins from maharashtra who settled in andhra long ago merged with niyogis, by showing some proof they too were niyogis, and that they were not sarasvat or madhvas. In coastal andhra there are few sarasvats but more madhvas. Madhvas more likely came during nizam and british times.
VSN (--) :--The strong marathi link of many people in andhra is not well known. Not just telangana border area with maharasthra, also coastal andhra has long links. On a trip to west coast area (konkan area) many years ago I was surprised to note many small villages whose names were IDENTICAL with small villages in Andhra, particularly krishna district which I am familar with. This cannot be a coincidence. It points to some migrations, either medieval or ancient. Looks wise too there are strong resemblances regardless of community.
----satavahanas were the common "ancestors" of today's telugu and marathi people. Chalukya empire included both areas. Rashtrakutas from maharashtra had strong influence in coastal andhra. During eastern chalukya times one pattavardhan from konkan was a general in coastal andhra. (surname patwardhan in common in konkan). Vijayanagar controlled southern konkan and Goa for a long duration. During Qutbshah times some marathi people seem to have also settled in coastal andhra. Then Venkoji Bhosle (brother of Shivaji) took over parts of tamilnadu : later Shivaji, and then the peshwas expanded all over deccan up to tamilnadu. Many soldiers, revenue officials and administrators came with them and probably settled down. One name is "sabnavis" common in coastal andhra.
R K P (--):--
I am eagerly waiting for updates on your site on roots and origins based on genetic findings.
---Very few scientific studies have been done so far, and really speaking all of them are just preliminary. Some very interesting stuff has been found. But it is still at a preliminary stage, and unless the sample sizes are large and geographically spread, and correlated with known history we cannot make definitive statements. But I'm sure genetic findings are going to puncture most notions and displease EVERYBODY.
Updated info on Kaapus
KAPU Community and its Sub-Castes
Kapu/Naidu, Telaga/Naidu, Munnuru Kapu,Balija Naidu/Naidu, Balija, Turpu Kapu, Ontari (Kapu).
The Titles Naidu, Setty, Rayudu are the caste titles for the community.
Naidu in Andhra, Telangana, Anantapur, Kurnool Districts refers to Kapu/ Balija Naidu/Telaga/ Ontari/ Turpu Kapu/'s .
In Nellore, Cuddapah, Chittor, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka they are called Balija Naidu.
Balija community has the title Setty either in the Surname or at the end of the Names.
Munnuru Kapus have Reddy as a title in areas of Telangana at the end of their name.
Kapu/Telaga communities in Andhra also have the suffix Reddy but only in their Surnames.
I'd like to know what my surname "gulivindala" signifies. We're remotely from Rajahmundry.
---anybody from Godavari, pl tell us. Is there a village named Gulivindala in Godavari district? Sounds similar to YSR's pulivendula --but that's far off.
no name (---)
Appreciate your coverage for development of SC's but better you don't go by caste and rather go by economic backwardness. There are many rich Scheduled castes and many very poor other castes including so called upper castes.
---reply: just mentally replace "SC" by "very poor" without regard to community and you'll be satisfied. But the fact is vast majority of scheduled castes are the POOREST people economically, never mind caste and community status. Only now the poor of other communities are realising common economic interest.
Please write about vaishyas ( Komati settis) also
(----2007: I met a few ppl: they were very happy to speak, but then hesitated about publication. Pl. send a list of prominent vaishyas of AP.)
About business communities in AP--if you have the information about the business class please add it in the site. i want to know what are the names which come under vysya(ex: in Andhra Pradesh we call Vysya , in Gujarat Agarwal some thing like that
----Presently I dont have much material on Komatis, exept legendary stories like Vasavi, kanyaka Paramesvari etc. But trading and commerce is very old in these parts, even much before Buddhist times. There is no doubt that some sections of the Komati (banias) are connected to old aryan expansion. There are other ancient trading commercial communities connected to Gujarat Rajasthan Karnataka, Maharashtra etc. (I dont mean recent marvadis and gujaratis). Besides at different times, some pastoral nomadic shepherding/cattle keeping tribes also gradually shifted to long distance pack transport, then trading on their own, finally getting into full scale commerce as an established trading community. I need to collect much more material for a page. If you wish, pl. write something for discussion.
Here's a legend about Kamma origins I read in a book --one group of kshatriyas who later became kammas started migrating south from somewhere in the north and reached Narmada river. Parasurama's mother Renuka Devi pleased with their devotion gave them ear studs ("kamma") which calmed the river and allowed them to cross safely. Some Kammas still have Renuka Devi as deity. Also, a century ago Kammas used to undergo upanayanam (initiation).
---reply : Renuka Devi is important deity for many AP Karnataka Maharashtra communities, associated with ancient Yellamma cult etc.
As far as initiation goes, well ALL the rituals are actually recent recreations by medieval reformers, of something which used to be done a long time ago during aryan and tribal times. In fact even girls had initiation, but it fell into disuse with changes in society and was forgotten. No doubt some enterprising and ambitious person will start it soon. Just wondering...Good bijness opparchunity, eh? What about e-upanayanam ?
B. K.(--) :--
Since Kapus are warrior-farmer community basically, I would like friends to explore the likely KAPU affiliations of many telugu dynasties and kings. Particularly Satavahanas, Eastern Chalukyas,Telugu Cholas as being Kapu/Telagas. Sri Krishna Deva Raya / Raja Raja Narendra were having Kapu links.
Regarding Kapus-- I heard Tirumala Nayaka of Aravidu Dynasty(Vijayanagar) and the ruler of Madurai has an inscription in the Madura Meenakshi temple where by he made an offering of some amount of land, cows etc and described his origin saying he and his ancestors were from the Balija/Telega community.
Is this true? Could someone from madurai confirm this? Can anyone trace this inscription?
The Kaapu, Munnuru-Kaapu, Ontari, Turpu-Kapu, Telega sub sects are primarily Warrior castes who when not at war took to agriculture. Its only the Balijas who got into trading.And here also the Balija Naidus were again Warrior sect.--BK.
...reply ...even the Balijas started off as armed security guards for merchant caravans initially : eventually they got into trading on their own and formed their own trade guilds. One prominent guild was based at Ainavol in Karnataka, during Kalyani chalukyan times. Many inscriptions in South India detailing grants made by such guilds. I'll get the actual inscriptions and a pic too but will take time.
Hi, I too want to know more about Kamma-Maratha links like poster Mr. Ravi below.
---suggest you meet someone from telugu association Chembur, Mumbai or even BARC.
Hi all, I'm trying to find information on Telugu brahmins who migrated to Tamilnadu few centuries ago during the time of Nayak kings. Could you give any leads? Thanks .
---you could contact the local telugu associations in madurai, tanjavur, chennai, etc. There are several published histories of Telugu composers and writers of those times, like Tyagaraja etc. Literature of the time of Nayaka rajas of Tanjavur and Madurai will give several leads to your query. Earlier to them some migrated to Melattur, and continued their dance drama tradition : they are still around, called Bhagavatars. Tyagaraja is said to hail from the Mulkinadu community.
Hi, there's a kamma surname "Sureddi". They're from village Manikonda near Vijayawada. According to oral traditions, they came from maharashtra. Anyone has info on this?
Kondaveeti S (--)
Hi my surname's Kondaveeti, I'm a choudary. Mother's side surname is Anne. Anyone can throw some light on these names and roots? Thanks.
--maybe some illustrious ancestor hailed from KONDAVEEDU. There's a famous fort of that name. Why dont you make a visit. Many centuries ago, maybe your G(n) grandfather and G(n) grandmother admired the view, from the same stone steps you will climb on your trip...
Siddharta Pamulaparty. (--):
My surname is from village -name Pamulaparthi near Siddipet north of Hyderabad. I'm going to visit and research about the history and post it . Anyone has info on it?
Sudhakar Raju (..)
Anyone knows of good books on Kshatriya Raju history, please let me know, thanks
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