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More on Kammas

Discussion with readers, their queries, additions and leads
Dont take this caste affiliation too seriously. It is just like a membership to a cultural club, sort of tribal identity. Modern gene studies show all are quite "mixed". Excessive emphasis on caste actually reveals a medical condition caused by stress.

THIRUNARAYANAN RAJKUMAR(203.163.64.81) :--

Mostly TN kammas marry with in our own area. In my family now only started to go outer areanamely Tiruvannamalai. There also can see kammas but Madurai Kammas, our slang is different we can differentiate with others. Mostly our area kammas will not use word "nesa undhi" meaning it is good or nice. We only use "Baagha undhi". Other communities here use" nesa undhi". Nowadays my relatives also marry girls from Andhra, Nellore also.

Since I have not gone in deeper asking our relation with Tirumalai Naicker. Until today I am thinking that we belong to Tirumalai Naicker comunity. Even my cousin sister name is Rani Mangammal. We are boasting about Tirumalai Naicker and Rani Mangammal in providing roads, tanks and helping all the comunities and releigions at the same time keep Vishnavism in good place also.

My family name is machavaar and our Kula deivam is "Sri Lingammal". Usually our kamma community will not use shiva names. We only use Vaishnava names. But my kula deivam looks like shiva name. When relating with Tirumalai Naicker forefathers, their names are not vaishnava names. Recent 12~14 century onwards Vaishnavism started momentum in TN or south India.

May be I can get back to you after reading our "Kamma Deepam" monthly.

T.RAJKUMAR(chithraj ~hotmail) ( 203.117.33.25) :--

As read thro' the forum I thought of giving some info regarding this. We are from Kamma community, our house name is "machhavaar". Our native place is Ramanathapuram district near Madurai, Tamil nadu state. We are known as "Naickers" in that area. Our area was ruled by Thirumalai Naicker. Under the golden rule of Rani Mangammal the whole southern Tamil Nadu was doing well. I was told by my grand father we were to collect the tax from people here. My fathers young age guruvaaru from Andhra pradesh visit us for family functions. The fellow community in our area address us with much respect and as "Ayya" only. Since the our forefathers were in good positions in the government all the males are in our community were addressed as "Ayya". Even today we call our fathers as "Ayya" only. Ayya in Tamil means Sir.

I can also see some other community also using the name "naicker" (kambalatthu naicker) in our area they are "Gorala-vaalu". They are from Kattabomman community. Gorala-vaalu means those who rear sheep. They worship "Jakkamma". We can hear this name in Tamil movie "Veera Paandiya Kattabomman"
In Arcot and Kanchipuram areas "vanniyars" also using naicker names.

We kammas here identify ourselves in the times of marriages we ask for kammas only. We can identify ourselves by our own Telugu slangs which may not be grammatical but we can differentiate ourselves from the rest of naickers or naidus. Now every telugu speaking person in Tamil nadu says he is a naidu.

-----thanks for the info Raj, it shows how 'nayaka' was a title not confined to any single community. The sheep rearers are called Gorrela-vallu, Kuruba, Dhangar etc in neighbouring regions. They have distinction of producing FIVE powerful dynasties ( maybe more) in south India. But they like to pose as poor downtrodden community.

Suvarna Jetti(sljetti yahoo):--

I found this article by you while browsing the net. Its is very great. Actually I was searching online for so long to read about the discussions about the kamma caste...but till day, I didnt find a good one like this. Also I want to know more about house names ( inti perulu)

------- Thanks for the kind email.Actually the site is NOT about castes but about the cultural diversity found in India. One shouldn't take these things too seriously. Some intiperulu I have mentioned, and friends have added. But I dont have accurate details of gotras. It will take some time for verifying. In the meantime everybody is welcome to post some details.

Srikanth yamani(srikanthyamani--hotmail.com):--

Ram, Happy to see your mail and the time you spent on this. But I was dissappointed to see the summary of the mail. When I talk about the roots I really mean it. But the thing is you are saying that there is a village called EMANI near tenali or try this or try that. It is incomplete and it makes mockery of all these researches. If your writings are to be believed then I need when was this village formed. Who formed this village. What are their origins. From where they came from. When did they came. And so on. I guess it is a time taking procedure and I don't think you have that much time to put for some unknown person's roots. Any way Thanks! a lot for all the infomation you provided. I really appreciate that.

Currently I'm staying in Hartford Connecticut, USA. I'm trying to send my DNA test results for a archeologist in Germany who does some research and compare the DNA's of first , second and third generations of Arabs, Muslims, Jews (all these so called aryans) who migrated to India some centuries ago. This archeologist or who ever, is finding the myth of Aryan invasion on India. Bottomline is I want to find my roots. What ever and where ever they are from. When tomorrow someone says like "MATTI KUNDALO PUTTITHIVI KADHA NEEDHI YE KULAMU" then I can show authentically.

----heh heh, I did not know you were so interested in genetic roots---I assumed it was just social historical roots like most people!! Anyway I congratulate you on your venture. Pretty soon it will become commonplace .....and there will be quite a few embarassed and red faces wishing they never knew ;-)

Haplotype analysis of Indians (e.g. Andhra Pradesh) shows a widespread one which is shared by arabian people. The "migration" or "connection" concerning this haplotype took place several thousand years ago, also confirmed by ancient history anyway. But why are you so particular about middle east roots only? Haplotype investigation also shows links to central asia, africa ( more than one migration/connection) and a very old link to rest of east and southeast asia. By now we are entering times of 40,000 years ago.... If you are going in for such deep root analysis you should forget about community kammas, village emani, state andhra pradesh, country india, continent asia....even species according to latest researches.

Ok that dialogue is one more funny addition. Vasishta and Agastya (old ancestors of Indians and southeast asians) were born in a jar. (i.e. like test tube babies). So much for pure roots.

Anyway good luck and I hope you will let readers know the details soon!

Srikanth Yamani(srikanthyamani--hotmail.com):-

Your research is very interesting. I'm a kamma from Guntur dist. My last name is "YAMANI" . Maybe some roots from Yemen, Bahrain, Saudi ?
I guess YAMANI surname is fairly common in the Sathenapalli area of Guntur dist. There is some muslim population in that area but not with that surname. I don't know whether YAMINI in brahmins and YAMANI in kammas are some where related to muslims of middle east. Whether people believe it or not history and roots of our ancestors will be like that only. Sometimes they make us feel proud and sometimes they will show us down. Britishers have a proud history also they had some humiliating history too.

----Sorry to spoil the interesting scene, you dont have such an exotic link.... there is a well known village called Emani near Tenali. Lots of kammas. It is pronounced also as ya-mani. Yaamini is a girls first name: jaimini is a surname.
by the way the areas like Yemen you mentioned are not "muslim" they are "arab". If you feel disappointed...maybe you could try jamni...jamuna river, also called yamuna or yamna. While I cannot link kammas to this directly, the ancient andhras lived on the banks of the jamuna many, many centuries ago. (They were probably kicked out for creating havoc in Haryana and migrated south and now they are doing it here. ;-)

Ravi( yravis----rediffmail ):--

Hi , I'm a kamma, my surname is YALAMANCHILI. my grandpa is from KANUMURU which is I think is near vuyyur. Can anybody some light about YALAMANCHILI roots.

Gopi( goopi_krish----yahoo.co.in):--

Dear all, I think most of you are confused about the caste system,especially-naidu-kamma-balija-etc. here is a simple explanation given by a bhramin guru. kamma is basically an upper kshatriya community initially centered at krishna and later spread equally to all the three states-tamil nadu,andhra and karnataka.

KAKATEYA KINGS WERE KAMMAS.

During the krishnadeva raya period,in 13-15th century A.D considerable population of kammas moved to tamil nadu.(The recent census show that there are over 70 lakh kammas in T.N alone). Kammas ruled South and north tamil nadu for several years under the title of NAYAKERS. Thirumalai Nayacker is the most famous among them and there is historical evidences that he is a kamma. Even now kammas in south use the title Nayaker. They also ruled northen part of T.N for some time. The famous Vellore fort was built by Kammas.

But now the title Nayackers is used by other tamil and telugu communities like vanniars in arcot(vellore) dist and Muthariars (tanjore and vellore dists).

Now kammas in north tamil nadu and west tamil nadu and kammas in rayalaseema(chittoor and neighbouring dists)use the title NAIDU(example:--Chandra Babu Naidu,Venkaiah Naidu). Kammas in other regions of A.P use the title Chowdry or rao(ex:-NTR).

Historians say that Naidu title was used only by Kammas(Forward Community) but by 17th and 18th century AD other telugu backward communities like kappus,gajula balijas,idigas,velamas,thalaris,oddas etc.

In karnataka also the Kamma population is over 50 lakhs.

In Tamil nadu there is concentration of kammas in south(madurai,virudhunagar,kovilpatti,sivakasi(example:--vaiko) and in western belt of Coimbatore, avinasi, tiruppur Salem etc (PSG's and CIT owners,Genguswamy Naidu etc) and a considerable in vellore, arrakkonam, gudiyatham, pernambut and ambur regions bordering AP.

Due to different titles used and a lot confusions now people use only kamma name or kappu or vanniyar or gajula or idega etc to identify the community.

Though there is a considerable population of kammas in tn, ap and karnataka, there is no great unity among the kammas of these states.

I hope that this will give a general Idea about kamma community.---gopi.

------Thanks for the demographic details: but about community history, Sorry. Many of these claims we have heard before. Who is the brahmin guru you are quoting? There is NO EVIDENCE anywhere the kakatiya kings were kammas. The Kakatiyas were BONDED LABOURERS of Chalukya lords and came up through hard work and struggle.

This claim I keep hearing, is simply not true. All right I will repeat the actual evidence with details.

Please go to warangal, the 1000-pillar temple. Ask somebody for the pillar with Kakatiya Ganapati's inscription.

READ IT !!

And then decide once for all whether your un-named terrific stupendous great scholar imaginary "bhramin guru" is correct or a humble foolish mere Ganapati, just a kakatiya king is to be believed.

More patient explanation of nayak, naidu, neni:--The title nayaka is found in many communities especially in 17th centuries precisely because later vijayanagar states appointed people from all backgrounds on their merit. That is why naidu and nayakar is comon among many communities, but --neni (derived from sahini) is restricted to some kammas and some velamas. If it was derived from --nayakuni there would be many more --nenis in all communities.

no name(rajapudota@rediffmail.com ):--

SUMMARY: Long detailed postings on Kammas, bit rambling but worth for discussion. Among the points he makes is kammas are eastern chalukyas, they are also connected to the velamas and reddis and balijas. He is satisfied about Veeriah Chowdhary's book "Kammavari charitra"s genuineness, kapaya nayaka and kammas resisted the sultans, and went away after treachery by velamas: gangeya sahni doesnt enter the picture, 'neni ' is derived from nayakuni: kammas are DORALU: kammas never bow and submit, thats why no kammas are seen in telangana until recently: kammas are the only progressive community in India: etc etc.

////But I wonder if it is actually an anonymous setup by somebody to provoke reactions. ///Placed as separate page here.

no name (no email):--

Can someone tell me the roots of surname 'Tatineni'

Sreekanth (Sreekanth.Payyavula@bmwmcext.com):--

I am a Gampa kamma with a surname that is shared by some kapus in machilipatnam, but also by the keshav payyavula from anantapur (my area) . Just like most americans i am interested in what these mean. Does payyavula have any meaning in telugu? Does gotram mean anything? if so anyone can please clarify? Thanks in advance.

I am dissapointed that so little is known about kammas and happy that they have chosen education over everything else and have not become like the UP and Bihar chowdaries by the same name.
The author has done an excellent job of bringing out the caste based aspect of the indian society. I think it is an excellent source for people interested in reading about the impact on the indian society. sorry to have misunderstood the author like most people earlier.

Being in the united states i am interested in my roots. I have worked all over the world, currently working for BMW Manufacturing in USA. I happen to be an ex-graduate of IT-BHU (Metallurgy 1991). I have a master's in the US. (This is not a SD (SelfDubba) but to provide some authentic information. )

Believe me most of the Naidus, Chowdaries, Reddies in Ananathapur, Chittoor have common ancestry. My last name payyavula is common among Kapus. My Grandma used to refer to reddis as Kapus. We (kammas) are most likely a group of people which are a mix of castes who are most likely similar to the 'Ninjas' of Japan who were farmer warriors in Japan. They fought against the kings/for the kings depending on the situation.

Also, some of these Vermas seem to the brown nosers that sided with british and used the muslims to fight their cause. BEWARE

-----the word sensei in japan may be derived from senani or sahini. As I have written, there is evidence of reformist Brahmanaidu's army becoming employed by kings. (.... ferocious kamma ninjas.... ? somewhat bizarre image of popular movies mutant ninjas springs to mind...:-) Anyway dont respond to obvious bait postings like that one supposedly from verma. just ignore.

Chandra Sekhar (chandrakodali----rediffmail.com) ):--

Thanks for your reply regarding my Intiperu. I am aware of the village named kodaali. I thought there must a bit more to kodali. With regards to my opinion about your "balanced opinions" I mean to say that you are not carried away by the popular kamma bashing that is going on these days; like the kamma's owe their riches(so called) to NTR, chandra babu naidu Etc. It will be interesting for you to know that many of my kamma friends (the proportion of kammas among my friends is very low) and my self are of the opinion we need to learn more from reddy's, brahmins with regards to caste unity (i.e. Clannish for you).

--- parava ledandi, andaru manushulu mana-vahllay... ee vishayaalanni "light ga" theesukondi !

anonymous(no email):--

Dear all, Anyone knows about the root of my family name "KABUVAR" which we call it as Kappar in tamil. we are living in southern part of tamil nadu. Any feedback from our fellow kammas are appriceated.

Siri Varma (no email):--
This is all bull shit, Kammas used to sell milk and curd. That is the only thing I know. where do you have kingdoms, It was us (khstriya Rajulu and Velama Doralu.) who have kingdoms.

Manoj Kumar (pmkchowdary^^^^^hotmail ) :--
Hello .. Please anyone there can you get me the history of the surname of Ponugubati and I would be pleased to meet any of them with this surname..Best Wishes

kalyanchakravarthi (kotapatikalyan~~~~hotmail ):--
Hi, all of you.I want to add some flavor for this page of kammas.
As per my knowledge (which i gained by reading books by kosaraju raggavviah chowdarys gandikotayuddam and a book by maddineni ranga rao) kammas are rulers starting from 200ad viz (not in line) satavahanas, chalukyas kakatiyas and having relationship with vijayanagar kingdom also.
It is written in the books with evidences also. The uncles name of rani rudramadevi is Recherla prasaditya naidu, and before that Brahma naidu who belongs to palnadu warfare also having his surname as recherla. And we can find this surname or gotramu for some families in velamas also.
The legendary NTR's GOTRAMU is RECHERLA. And many people worked under viyanagar kings of which the moolapurusudu is pemmasani THIMMA NAIDU. And krishnadevarai's is Sambeta which we can find in some rayalaseema area.
NOTE: IT is not a simple coincidence of having the ruled kingdoms names as our surname OR gotrams. bye for now. I will add more details in future.
THANKS....kalyan

----why dont you ask Sri Rangarao/his publishers permission to place extracts on the web. Again one has to be careful not to get carried away and create stories because we " are convinced" or "hope".

kiran(thottempudi9*****yahoo ):--
Hi, This is all cooked up story, by someone like you and me. There is no research done and every thing is just bull shit. Let me make it clear that kammas are not the richest people in our state. People think we are as we are more dominative, and this we get it by the family culture in which we grow.
All this is a big story and you and I can also make it by signing up a free ISP who gives webspace and put up what ever we want on these HTML pages.
But the only fact about us is we belong both to the ruling class as well as agriculturists. cheers,
thottempudi kiran

---What's your problem? I have placed for all to discuss what I have referred to--the medieval inscription of the founder of one section of Kammas. I have also indicated where you can get details of later Kamma generals and governors. Friends have added their leads on (published) history of Kammas.
Most of the "history" you have been brought up on Kiran, is the " cooked up story". Go to the actual sources, only then form your own opinions. High time people like you (--and all of us :-) woke up and started thinking for themselves rather than parroting somebody's agenda. I doubt the educated Kammas will agree with you. Much work has to be done on these matters. So many people are participating. Most of them are scholars. If you have anything worthwhile to write and share, pl. go ahead. Otherwise I recommend soccer world cup, which is very absorbing. Bye!

chandra sekhar(chandrakodali----rediffmail.com)
I am delighted to see your article about kammas.It's refreshing to actually know that a non kamma like you has some balanced opinion about kammas.I will be thankfull to you if you can throw some light on kodali (my intiperu).

----There's a village named Kodaali near Challapalli- Movva in district Krishna.Generally kodaali folks seem to hail from here. (hehehe --thnx, I shall henceforth pride myself on my highly 'balanced opinions'. It is my balanced opinion you ppl ARE a bit clannish ;-) but I dont know why this should be so. Can you think of reasons?)

Sreenivasarao (sreenu-----rediffmail.com):---
I really enjoyed reading this. Any idea about 'karlakunti' surname.

Ramanaidu Suryadevara ( ramanaidu_s---- hotmail ):--
Hi, I really enjoyed reading this great information about kamma caste and history of suryadevara's. And i know one thing is Suryadevara's founder (mula purushudu) Suryadevara Ramanaidu (14th century) ref:Suryadevara Rajanya charitra (writen by Kodali lakshminarayana. And i feel very great because of i am having that name.Its having 700 years of history. thank you very much.

Naresh Kumar ( naresh_korrapati~~~~hotmail):--
This is interesting. I am happy to have learnt more about my roots - kamma caste. I would also like to share some more details. There is division in kammas as - "pedda kammaru " and "Chinna kammaru". The kammmas around the villages of Challapali area are more in numbers of pedda kamma. They generally look down upon chinna kamma and try to find matches as far as possible within the pedda kamma group. ---Naresh Korrapati, Memphis

Sridhar (---):-

I never expected that I could find so much information on this community in the web pages. Hats off to VR Rao for the research he has presented on the community and I thank him, being a descendant of this 'envied'caste.I am currently studying in US.

I don't believe in the system of current caste system as seen in the AP or else where as it has no resemblance with that of the 'true' varna system of Manu. Caste as a definition eroded with time and today we see thousands of castes and sub-castes which still affiliate themselves to the four varnas. Nothing is more dubious and misleading than the present word 'caste'but the course of its long journey in this sub-continent and the its transformation and synthesis into new forms is very interesting.

After reading your information its clear that the kamma caste has no accurate roots or history. But nevertheless kamma has established itself into a great caste and they have a strong presence in the society. It's the kind of presence they created that makes others feel 'inferior'. I sometimes wonder my self what's the secret behind that made this community so popular, prosperous and enviable. I don't think kammas are wealthy. There are very poor people in them like any other castes. What is common and striking is their knowledge, culture and tradition as a characteristic trait. The kammas have patented their own culture, character and prestige. The kammas in general are very educated, that doesn't mean they all have PhDs but they all exhibit the kind of wisdom, knowledge and advancement that draws a clear line between them and the other castes.

This aspect of advancement in kamma community invokes curiousity to study the roots and making of these people that made them so wonderful. If we attribute this to sheer wealth and money of this people, that doesn't pose answers to the question as we have seen vaishyas, rajus and brahmins too having access to better sources of wealth, not imitating the same kind of character as that of kammas.

The history and roots as available are vague and how they differentiated in to kamma caste is mysterious. The present day kammas proudly relate them to aryans(Indo-europeans), which seems absurd due to absence of any documented evidence. The colour of these people is varying to relate them to a original race. After studying many of these people I have a strong belief that these people are primarily agriculturalists and landlords and their presence wide stretching from Orissa to Karnataka and Tamil Nadu is an indication of their nomadic nature. Of late they proved themselves very versatile and spread across every field and every part of the globe.Caste as a political manifestation also showed up in kammas but are previleged to bringing a healthy and develpomental side of politics and governance.

Another worth-discussing element of kammas is the significance of their family name(intiperu). If they are all have a commmon derivative then why are such a large number of intiperulu. But may be no other caste has attached so much significance and property to the family name as that of kammas.

Hope many interested kammas continue sharing their knowledge and opinions on the history of kammas and the caste. But remember discrimination based on castes is the least we could afford to and we need to make this world a better world to live in for all the castes and the society at large. And be proud that we are better equipped to address many of these issues. It is also an obligation on our part. Bye.


ashok s ( )March 5, 2002 :-

You have written a very interesting article about Kammas. However you have not been very polite in your replies to Mr.Basavaiah.
I don not think he was bragging about his caste or trying to glorify past History. It is purely an academic discussion started by you. There has been no attempt to do disservice to any hard working people. It is a historical fact that most of the Kakatiya nayaks were kammas. In those days there were no Guntur district or Krishna District. Kondaveedu was ruled by Vasireddy Mallaprabhu during Sri Krishandevarayas time. Amaravathi ruler Vasireddy Venkatadri Naidu had an army and was on of the biggest Rajyams in those days. You can find Suryadevara families still living in Pulivarthi seema (Presently Repalle Taluk) near Peteru and Rachur Forts which were ruled by Suryadevara Pedanarasimha and Chinnarasimha Naikudu around 1550.

------Think you've got it wrong. It wasn't about Mr Basavaiah's excellent contribution specifically, it is about something more broader. For instance often heard claims like kakatiya kings, vijayanagar kings were all kammas, etc and the other extreme saying nobody heard of kammas until recently. Both are wrong, as inscription evidence shows.
What I meant was unless backed up with hard archeological evidence it becomes difficult to distinguish between fake and genuine tradition. It was an observation about so called notions held by ALL communities about themselves.

As far as my knowledge goes SOME nayakas of late kakatiyas and vijayanagar were of kamma origin. If you have details that MOST were, please share with us. I have also mentioned some kammas were appointed governors of regions....like Amaravati under Vasireddy. All that you have said is already on the website, if not in detail. Why dont you send some more of the interesting details to share with readers.


V B (velbah yahoo ) March 3, 2002 :--
Devarkonda-Devarkota--Yes, you are right. It was a typographical error. It should have been DEVARAKOTA and not Devarakonda. Challapalli was the capital of Devarakota rajyam and it was established in the year 1576 by yarlagadda Guruvarayudu.Source : Nanarajya vikhyatha charitra


Sreekanth Payyavula( ):--

Unfortunately, your research seems to have uncovered history of very few Andhra kammas, those with 'neni' last names.
The first paragraph that you have published does give enough clues to why nobody other than kammas themselves can give authentic information. Why would somebody else aka a brahmin, yadava, reddi etc give a good review of history when they don't like these kammas. It looks like because of their leftist tendencies ' a lot of communists are kammas'. They have also rebelled against brahmins quite a few times - you have some pointers to that.
It is very apparant for me from my childhood experiences that kammas were and are isolated. It will help most kammas to know that in their hearts and can help put things in their proper perspective.
Sorry the author of this page is bent on propagating the myth of their 'richness'. There is very little research to substantiate that. There are equal number of rich reddis , Rajus, Kommatis and Brahmins.

----I'm a little confused. What exactly are you trying to say? That there are many poor kammas? I have said so. "Kammas are isolated" you wrote. So? It is another way of saying they are a bit clannish. They know that quite well I'm sure. About kammas other than '-neni' ..well its up to them if they are interested in roots...my aim is merely to spark discussion. Think I have done so.
Actually Sreekanth, very little material is available on Andhra as a whole. That's my aim, not kammas or reddis or anybody.


Veluvolu Basavaiah( velbah yahoo ) Feb 19th 2002:--

Re : SURYADEVARA surname.--- They ruled Pulivarthi Seema around 1500 A.D. Presently it is called Repalle taluq in Guntur District.They were in possession of Rachur and Peturu forts. It seems they were taken by velamas in 17th century. You can read more details in KAMMAVARI CHARITRA, KIRAN PUBLISHERS, Navabharat guest house line,Guntur-6

V B( - ):--

Some people refer to kammas, reddis and velamas as sudras. they are not sudras; they are kshatriyas. they were rulers and military chiefs under various kings( like vijayanagar;kakathiyas etc.)
Kondaveedu was originally ruled by vasireddi vamsa kammas before it went to reddi rajulu. amravathi was one of the biggest kingdoms in those days ruled by kammas. later it became devarakonda (challapalli,muktyala etc.).


----thanks Basavaiahgaru for sharing the info. But, the caste categories hardly mattered---it was always valour. The famed Kaktiyas proudly proclaimed they were originally bonded slaves. Personally, I'd forget about imaginary "classifications" and appreciate the actual achievements. Now, these stories are more in the nature of education and example for children, not as something to wear on your chest. In any case, if one remote ancestor was somebody, how does it make you anybody? (This applies to all, not just kammas.)

Some details about kondaveedu/amaravati etc. Devarakonda was a velama prinicipality, with capital at Devarakonda. It is likely many small feudal estates were annexed by the powerful Velamas and Reddis around 1350 AD. Some of the Warangal nayakas were Kamma (note clearly : only some of them, NOT all of them) and they were placed in charge of regions and areas, for instance Amarapura. Overall, andhra-telangana-rayalseema-karnataka-orissa area has seen almost continuous warfare as long back as we can trace : "estates" changed hands routinely, because what was being changed was merely the person who grabs the TAX revenue of an area. The value of farming areas today has no bearing on what it was like five hundred years ago. Land was quite cheaply available.

About Kamma kingdoms: Sorry, there is no evidence for krishna guntur kamma kingdoms anywhere. I have tried to find, but nothing so far. There are some estates ( samsthaanams, or baronies/dukedoms) of large zamindari types, but no royal states with independent standing army, coinage, aspects of sovereignty etc. Very long ago (1200's) Gangeyasahni / Ambayasahni clan controlled parts of rayalaseema and a part in nellore district. This is the only (possible) kamma estate which could have become independent if Ambayasahni's rebellion was successful.

BUT, tamilnadu kammas HAVE feudal history due to vijayanagar empire appointing some ( SOME) governors with kamma background. But Krishna Guntur, doubtful. except for yarlagadda/ vasireddy clan etc.

If you are a kamma, please dont fall into trap of creating glorious fake history. Let the real human history be sufficient. Otherwise you will be taken for a ride. Hence history for kammas by kammas of kammas is just an invitation for ridicule. You will be doing disservice to your hardworking people. (but why are you looking for kamma raajyam in long ago times ? ippudu unnadi chaalada..? ;-)

Rohit Kumar (rohitkrv REDIFFMAIL.COM)
It is stated in history that chowdhary community were kshatriyas who originated from the earstud of goddess Mahalakshmi and they have both lakshmi gothra and vishnu gothra. Since they had embraced Buddhism and jainism, They had lost touch with day to day (hindu) rituals. The Marathas and Scindia's and their rituals are common to kammas.

-- please also indicate the references, and some more details if possible


K Ganesh Kumar(karlapudiganesh yahoo ):-
I am very delighted to see the history of kamma's and i am eager to see more.

--- it is their own fault... except for some illuminated 'progressive minded' people, they totally neglected the study of history/humanities/arts. Now they are beginning to understand the significance of many things, which cannot be immediately counted in rupees.


Sreekanth Payyavula( spayyavula----yahoo ):-
Could you please give more information on the name Kammas? why kammas -- does it have any meaning in telugu or prakrit.

--As far as we can tell, the most likely reason is GEOGRAPHICAL. The area of south bank of river krishna was known in old days as karma- or kamma - rashtra. It is not exclusively associated with choudhary community-- there are other clans with the name "kammanadu" and "kammekapu" or similar sounding names. Just like one maala sub-clan has "reddibhoomi" as sect name.
The unlikely explanation is "kamma" means charma or skin -hide, so kamma-vallu means charma-vallu i.e. dealers in skins and hides ( tanners). This I doubt. Then some say it is connected to copper trade. I dont have details, but minerals are found in ongole-guntur uplands.
Some others want to derive from "karmara" worker (?) of buddhist times because it fits into politically correct categories --of today. I have already mentioned possible derivation from Kaambhoja in Afghanistan-Tajikistan.
So what is your idea. Please let us know.


Balaji( no email ):-
KAMMA NAIDUS IN SOUTHERN TAMILNADU--
There are plenty of Kamma Naidus in southern part of tamilnadu. They are in Madurai, Virdhunagar, Tuticorin, Tirunelveli and neighbouring districts. These kammas were migrated in Vigayanagara period and ruled TamilNadu for hundreds of years under Nayak names. The King Thirumalai Nayakar was the popular king among them. In these southern districts Kammas are also called as Nayakars or Vadugar(Tamil Name of Kamma).


Venkata Ramanaiah Chowdary (raman_chowdary@rediffmail.com ) :-

Hai, I am a Mechanical Engineer working at Chennai. I belong to Hyderabad, I heard in Tamilnadu there are a lot of people of my community. I searched a lot but I couldn't find anything till now. Finally ur page gives a lot of information. If you have anything more about Kammas please do send to my mail.
BYE!


Gopichand(gkatragadda---satx.rr.com ):-
My name is Gopichand Katragadda, grandson of Gopichand Tripuraneni, Great Grandson of Ramaswamy Tripuraneni. I am curious as to who the Tirupuraya descendent is you are referring in your article's last paragraph?

--Dont worry it isn't you! I'm sure you know your clan better!


Anu(--):-
Could anyone throw light on Krishna district Kamma surname "Suryadevara" ? Any reliable source? Thank you


Mahendra Govinda(mahendran100----yahoo ):--
why some kammas migrated to Tamil Nadu? is it true it is due to the fact that a moslem wanted to marry kamma girls? as their history tells?

---No, it is not true. It is a garbled version of older story dealing with merchant community--- the story of vasavi and the chalukya king. Actually the kammas "migrated " for precisely the same reasons people do so today --like better prospects. ( In this case, prospects of plunder. ) In any case there has not been this "victim" mentality in Andhra Pradesh with respect to "muslims" . The locals gave as good as they got, so it was generally peaceful.

to further similar responses in this thread--May I add... most of the "muslims" of south India including Maharashtra are very much locals with fairly well known connections to hindu, buddhist, tribal communities..... and this includes many of the sultans. The humbug of tracing a person's propah "islamic" ancestry to Arabia or Samarkand is considered a joke nowadays in Hyderabad. As a girl (mus) pointed out, might as well trace it to Congo. Bunch of racists, ancestry my foot.


Siva Kumar(sivaku----hotmail ) :--
Help me in finding my roots

I am from Madurai in Tamilnadu. Our community is "Vaduga(r)" as per records. We also call ourselves "Velema/Velama Naidu". We are primarily based in and around Madurai - Tirumangalam. Some of us still speak some form of Telugu !.
Are there any sub-castes under Vaduga or Velama ?. I want to trace the roots of my family.
Our family belongs to some subcaste called "Kanchineni" or something like that. Do anyone of you know about this?. Does "neni" come under Velema ?. I met a Telugu family in Kuwait Airport and they told me "neni" does'nt come under Velema but it is "Kamma".
All our family pray to a deity/Goddess named "Guruv-ammal". We don't marry within this sub-caste (obvisously). We marry with other sub-castes which are not brotherly. There are some sub-castes which are brotherly, some are not. My wife is from "Singineni" family and thier deity is "Ellammal".
Currently I live in London UK, my brother is in the US. Let me know if you know anything about our family roots. Keen to hear from you...

---some tentative info. The Velama states of Rachakonda and other places were defeated by the huge forces of Vijayanagar, who promptly appointed the knights and barons as military officers but took the precaution of posting them rather far away in Tamil areas. It is possible some of the soldiers in these contingents maintained a family tradition they hailed from Rachakonda or Devarakonda. Some kamma families of Tamilnadu call themselves velamanaidus : rachakonda is a common surname. So your query has a sound basis.

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